For the past six-odd years, Simon Tam and The Slants’ life has partially included a court case concerning the band’s name. The trademark office denied their trademark on the grounds that it was racist against individuals of Asian descent. In their denial, the trademark office cited Urban Dictionary, a Miley Cyrus photo, a fake MySpace article, and a book from 1928 that stated “slant eyes is offensive to oriental people.”
So Simon Tam and The Slants proceeded to have to prove they were not offensive to themselves. The band’s name was intended to be a re-appropriation of the term “slant” for Asian-Americans, as well as a play on words because they wanted to provide their own slant on life and their own slant on music. They wanted to re-appropriate slant the same way that LGBT+ individuals have done with “queer” or how blacks have done with the n-word in their own communities.
I had the pleasure of interviewing The Slants at Otakon, and I asked them about their court case, their music, and Run River North, among many other things.
Kory Cerjak: So I’ve been following this Supreme Court case; do you mind if I ask about it?
Simon Tam, founder and bassist of The Slants: Sure. Ask whatever you’d like.
KC: How do you feel about the repercussions of Lee v. Tam? [When the Supreme Court made their decision, the court case was titled Matal v. Tam; the court case is named after the director of the trademark office, which changed throughout the process. – KC] I’ve heard people are starting to trademark things like N-I-G-G-A, and they’re trying to re-appropriate that term as well. Is this the consequence you intended with this?
ST: I think that the bigger pictures that people are finally talking about racial identity in the trademark office in ways that they haven’t before. Before, it was based on presumptions and stereotypes. Before, the communities had no voice whatsoever in terms of determining what could be registered or not. And now that we’ve opened it up, I think, yeah, it’s a good thing. There were a lot of news headlines—Reuters did a piece, NPR did a piece… I thought it was really fascinating because they said “we’ve opened a Pandora’s Box.” One headline said, “The Floodgates Have Been Opened.” And I was like, really? There have been nine applications of potential racial stereotypes—nine out of 330,000. Like that’s what we’re gonna call floodgate? There were actually hundreds more every single year, so it’s not really that [much of an] increase. And when you look at the applications filed, the overwhelming majority of them are from people from different communities trying to re-appropriate language and trying to shift meaning or do something positive with it. Cause all these people trying to use intellectual property for justice were previously been denied. And now that they have the opportunity to have that say, that is awesome. And, of course, these are just applications. We don’t know if they’re going to be registered; they might be denied for any number of other reasons. But at least there’s the opportunity to have that conversation.
KC: So you do have these conversations [about race] at the conventions. How do you like showing up at these conventions talking to anime fans that watch these Asian cartoons, but may not know any Asians?
ST: I think it’s awesome. A practice of ours that started in 2009 is doing this convention in Nashville called MTAC [Middle Tennessee Anime Convention, a three-day anime convention in March/April – KC]. We started doing panels called Asians in America. We would talk about stereotypes that people have, especially some of the more disgusting ones, and actually have conversations about them and address them right then and there. From that point on, the last eight years, we’ve been touring these conventions doing anti-racism workshops at conventions. And I’m like, that is amazing. The kids come, and they’re pretty open to it. They think it’s this pop bubblegum culture thing, but there’s definitely fun with it. We try to bring this sense of humor and personality, but at the same time we’re like there’s real stuff, like tokenizing people or objectifying a certain culture does have repercussions. And let’s talk about why and what that looks like. Let’s talk about appropriation. Let’s talk about why, if you wanna be an accurate character, you probably shouldn’t be taping your eyes back or painting your skin. That’s kind of messed up. And having those conversations is really awesome.
KC: Transitioning to music, were there any Asian or Asian-American bands before you guys started playing in the band that really influenced you?
Ken Shima, lead singer of The Slants: Mike Shinoda. Linkin Park.
ST: The thing is there were individual musicians, but there weren’t a lot Asian-American bands pre-2005, 2006. I was talking to one of my friends about it, who’s this Asian-American rapper named Jason Chu, and I was like, “We’re like old now.” We’re like the generation that started breaking out before YouTube, you know. And now there’s all these amazing artists. But for me, no. All my influences were Brit pop, punk rock bands, hard rock bands. I didn’t know of any. Now I do. There’s so few of us. We either play with them or know them personally or something. But, yeah, it’s starting to grow, and it’s awesome seeing that landscape shift a little bit.
KC: So have you played with Run River North? [I was wearing a Run River North shirt, and they commented on the shirt as I walked in before I started recording. – KC]
ST: No, we haven’t. Whenever they’re in our town, we’re out of town. And when we’re in LA, they’re off on the road or something like that. We’ve traded messages and tried to orchestrate a show, but unfortunately we haven’t been able to get one together. But we have all these mutual friends. Phil Yu, the ultimate Asian network right there. One day, I hope to.
KC: I listened to your podcast with Phil Yu and Jeff Yang—They Call Us Bruce. I went to your panel earlier, and you mentioned, “They called me Jackie.” And I’m like, “Oh, that’s like our generation’s Bruce Lee. They call us Jackie is us!”
ST: New podcast!
[laughs]
KC: So what are some Asian-American bands that you like today? Or even just artists?
ST: Do you have any favorites?
KS: Asian-American artists? The Slants.
[laughs]
KS: No, like I said, Mike Shinoda. He’s one of the cool people from Linkin Park that I just grew up listening to. And I didn’t even know Shinoda was Japanese, half-Japanese for a long, long time.
ST: Even with his name?
KS: Just thought it was the rapper from Linkin Park. Or the beats guy or whatever. I always thought the Pilipino guy from the Black Eyed Peas was the scary one.
ST: What?!
[laughs]
ST: You know we played a show with them back in the day.
KS: Yeah, I know. Aside from that, it’s kind of weak sauce. I haven’t really done too much research into Asian artists. Unless they were part of Linkin Park or a big band.
ST: I do like Run River North. When I saw you walk in, I was like that’s awesome. There’s not a lot of bands, but there’s a lot of folks who are MCs who are doing a lot of cool stuff. I think we’re still up and coming on that. There’s a lot of singer-songwriters that are coming up too. I really like Adam WarRock. I like some of the earlier stuff of Far East Movement. I think they’re really groundbreaking for their time. I even grew up listening to Jin the MC, you know what I’m saying? Because I’m so desperate for hearing something. Even now when I look back and I hear “Learn Chinese” I’m like this is terrible. But his freestyles, his 106 and Park [a BET program that ran from 2000 through 2014 – KC] are amazing. Dumbfoundead. I like a lot of his stuff, and I like how he’s interjecting a lot of commentary into his music. So that’s definitely cool. And definitely shout out to our buddy Jason Chu. He’s just a great guy.
KC: So you grew up in San Diego, right?
ST: Yes.
KC: Did you grow up in-
KS: Portland.
KC: Oh, so you grew up in Portland. You’re like me. I grew up in Iowa. And I don’t know if this is the same for you, but for me it was a realization within the last couple years that I was yearning for Asian-American representation in things that I’m watching, the things that I’m listening to. Which is why I’m discovering bands like you guys, The Slants, and Run River North. I want to listen to more Asian-American music, I want to watch more movies with Asian Americans, not just Asians. Did you feel the same way growing up, and maybe recently?
KS: Yes. I was actually just thinking about how, when I joined The Slants…before I joined The Slants, I could’ve said that I’m the whitest Asian ever. Even though I can speak Japanese and grew up with the Japanese culture—
ST: You’re like a banana.
KS: I actually think I still am a banana.
KC: My friends called me a Twinkie.
KS: Yeah, same. Like, when I joined The Slants, it kind of filled me with a sense of pride being Asian again. And going to a bunch of Asian restaurants with the guys, it’s kind of feeds my soul as well as my stomach.
ST: Yes, we were at Momofuku last night, so good.
KC: Yeah, we went to Daikaya, me and my girlfriend and one of my buddies. She’s Japanese. Filling my belly with Asian food—
KS: Nourishing, man. Are you Korean?
KC: Yeah, I’m Korean. Hence the Korea hat. [I was also wearing a World Baseball Classic Korea hat. – KC]
ST: Run River North is Korean.
KC: Yeah, they’re all Korean-American.
ST: Alright. Repping it.
KC: But I was adopted, raised by white parents, so. It’s even harder for me to even realize that I’m—
ST: Make that connection.
KC: Yeah. For one, my parents never said I was their kid since I was obviously not the same color. I asked my mom about this when I was a kid, I guess, and she said, “No, you’re adopted.” And I’m like, “Oh, ok.” And that probably didn’t register in my brain since I don’t remember this conversation at all. But it’s just within the last couple years with all this Black Lives Matter and you guys trying to re-appropriate the term “slants,” and other people trying to use N-I-G-G-A for black people that I’m realizing that I’m Korean and I want to know more about being Korean. Like, I didn’t even eat real Korean food except within the last couple of years.
KS: And do you naturally love it?
KC: I think so, yeah.
ST: Because it’s naturally delicious!
KS: Can I ask you a question, actually?
KC: Yeah, sure.
KS: Growing up in Iowa, and you had white parents, you said?
KC: Yeah.
KS: Did you feel any connection or kinship to other Asian people?
KC: I didn’t know any other Asians people.
ST: Yeah, it’s Iowa.
KC: Iowa is like 95 percent white. There was one other Asian kid in my grade and all the other teachers were like, “I can’t tell you guys apart.”
KS: Oh god.
ST: Yeah. I’ve had that before.
KS: How about now, though? Do you feel a kinship with us, for instance?
KC: Yeah, yeah. I went to the Run River North concert in Iowa City. They were playing and I’m kind of tearing up because I’m finally seeing bands on stage that look like me and I didn’t realize this was important to me.
ST: That’s a powerful moment.
KS: Cool moment.
KC: I’d hope I have the same kind of moment with you guys.
KS: Listen to our music and we’ll see.
[laughs]
KC: I mean, it’s a little less chill than Run River North sometimes, but. Whatever works. So have you guys seen the movie The Green Room?
ST: No, not familiar.
KC: They ask, what is your desert island band?
ST: Like if you’re on a desert island—
KC: And you can only listen to this one band for the rest of your life.
ST: Ramones. Easy for me.
KS: I’d go with Queen or the Beatles, probably. Just because all the catalogue.
[laughs]
KC: Never get sick of the songs. Alright, well I don’t really have any more questions.
ST: Thank you so much.
KC: Yeah, thank you. But I think it’s important for not just me but all Asians to listen to Asian-American music. I think Lee v. Tam is gonna forward that—
ST: Although, they renamed the case to Matal v. Tam because a different person got appointed the director of the trademark office. It’s named after whoever is the director of the trademark office at the time.
KS: Was it Lee v. Tam in the federal court though?
ST: No, it was In Re Tam. For the first eight years—no, the first seven years it was In Re Tam. My case changed three names. Makes it fun.
KC: Well, if I may ask one more question, that’s almost 10 years of your life. How’s that gonna affect you moving forward? Where will The Slants be after this court case?
ST: I don’t know. To be honest with you, I’m not sure. We’re still writing music. We’re still using it to drive home what we’re really passionate about and care about. But I think for the first time in a really long time, we’ll be doing this without the weight of a national battle with the government hanging over our heads. That frees up a lot of energy, a lot of time, a lot of money that was going to something else. So I’m really excited about what’s happening. There’s a lot of possibilities. For us, because we infuse our values and do this arts / activism thing, that might shift what that art looks like from time to time. What the activism component is gonna be based on. Kind of what we’re feeling in terms of what’s happening in our country. But yeah, whatever happens I’m really excited for it. But there days when we’re on tour and I’m like, “Yo I’m getting old.” Feeling it. But it doesn’t matter. The idea of The Slants is more important than the individual components of it, the band members. I think it’s really important for our society. For the first time ever, an Asian-American band was covered by Rolling Stone. They did it four times this year.
KC: Well, congratulations on your court case.
ST: Thank you.
KC: I hope you continue to make great music after this. I listened to your albums almost obsessively preparing for this interview. And I’m going to your concert later on.
ST: Do you have a favorite one?
KC: I don’t know if I’m that familiar with it yet.
ST: No worries. So tonight we’re playing every song off our newest EP, which is The Band Who Must Not Be Named. So that one’s got our newest stuff. And we’re playing quite a bit of unreleased music for an album we’re working on right now.
KC: I remember you mentioning that you’re just gonna call it The Slants as sort of a statement on [the court case].
ST: Yeah, self-titled. So that’ll probably be out early next year, late this year. We’re taking a little extra time on it. Mostly because life post court was a little different than we imagined.
KC: Well, thank you for your time. I really appreciated talking with you all.
ST: Likewise. Nice to meet you, and we’ll see you later this evening.
